State of the Industry Podcast: “The Heart of the Deal: Confronting the emotion of selling your practice.” – Audio Transcript

Scott: Hello, everyone. Scott Hanson here. This is the “State of The Industry Podcast,” Allworth Financial. We do this periodically. We’re interviewing somebody interesting on a topic that is of relevance to you. And so, today we’re gonna be talking about “The Heart of the Deal,” joined with David DeVoe. So, glad you are taking part of this podcast. I’m sure most of you know David DeVoe of DeVoe & Company. Specializes in helping retirement firms…I mean, advisory firms get larger, go through succession, think about next generation, all that sort of stuff. And I’ve got him join us today to talk about “The Heart of The Deal.” It’s a white paper that we did in conjunction with DeVoe & Company on understanding and overcoming the emotional barriers of selling your RIA. So, David, thanks for taking some time to join me today.

David: Oh, my pleasure. It’s an honor to be part of this.

Scott: Yeah. So, I think we’ve all seen the numbers, it looks like M&A slowed down a bit, but it still feels like external succession seems to be the norm. So, why is that?

David: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, good news, a lot of advisors want to sell internally. And that’s good in a lot of ways, but the challenge is often they can’t or there’s a better option than selling internally. And that can run the gamut of economics, you know, G2 can’t afford it. Sometimes they just don’t have the optimal G2 team in place, sometimes, you know, the employees don’t wanna run the organization. So, there’s a number of factors that are driving the external sale. And, you know, we expect that those to actually drive more activity over time.

Scott: Yeah. On that, so people who own their own advisory firm, if you think about these folks, they left somewhere else, embarked their own career, became entrepreneurial, right? And then they have G2, as you call them, hired some younger people to come work for them, typically younger than some other people in the organization. Do you guys find that those folks aren’t as entrepreneurial and don’t have the same kind of drive to grow as the founders by and large?

David: Yeah. I think, you know, mileage may vary and it depends on the firm and the people, but, you know, you can’t help but just assume that they’re not gonna be as entrepreneurial as the founders, right? I mean, that’s just a certain DNA, every founder of a company is wired as an entrepreneur, and that’s a unique wiring. You know, that’s a wiring to say, “Hey, I wanna do things differently. I wanna do things better. I wanna do things my way. And I’m willing to bet the firm on it.” I know your story, you cashed out essentially your 401k to start Allworth or the previous generation of Allworth, and you’re wired as an entrepreneur, which is taking on degrees of risk. You know, it’s really having a vision for what you seek to achieve. It’s a willingness to eat top Ramen for, you know, a couple of months or a couple of years, including a certain control freak that guys like you and I might have as well. So, you know, the G2, the G3, the typical employee. There’s going to be a subset, and probably a pretty small subset, that has that extreme sort of wiring to go start something new and different.

Scott: Okay. So you mentioned control freak. I don’t consider myself a control freak. Thank you.

David: Of course, not. Of course, not.

Scott: As long as it goes my way.

David: Exactly.

Scott: So, I think one of the bigger challenges, and it’s probably not discussed enough, is kind of that emotional toll that a transition can take on an owner. I mean, what can they expect as they sell to a larger firm?

David: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s part of the…

Scott: And I think as you see David, it’s not so much people are selling and retiring right away, right? People are selling and continuing.

David: And I think that’s the great news. You know, when I started in this industry 19 years ago, more often than not, folks would say, “Hey, I’m gonna die with my boots on. I’m gonna, you know, work until I die and, or, you know, I’m gonna sell an exit right away.” And that’s not really good for anyone. That’s not good for consistency with the staff, that can be very disconcerting to the clients, but even for those individuals, you know, the valuation’s gonna be compressed, and frankly, you know, their lives may even be suboptimal. You know, a lot of people got into this business, and they love parts of it, and they don’t like parts of it. So, you know, an external sale can be a really exciting, you know, way to sort of invigorate yourself in what you’re doing. You sort of offload the things that are painful and you’re able to focus on those things that are not boring or operational and do what you really love. So, you know, I think the illusion…

Scott: And those are the kind of perfect and ideal transitions you’ve seen, right? And sometimes you see transactions go exactly that way, where the founder sells into another organization, they offload all the stuff they don’t like doing, they focus on the things they enjoy doing, and everybody wins. They don’t always go that well, right?

David: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think that’s the ideal. And part of what we’ll talk about is, you know, strategic planning to make sure that you’re in a good position to hopefully achieve that goal. And I can tell you, if you don’t do much naval-gazing, think about your goals and aspirations, you know, your fears and what you seek to achieve. If you don’t do a lot of that, you know, assessment upfront, you’re probably doomed to regret either the deal or components of the deal. So, you know, the emotional rollercoaster that you go on to do a transaction is one thing, another thing is once you get the deal done…

Scott: Living with it.

David: …hopefully you’ve set that rollercoaster in the right direction, and it’s more of the fun stuff than the scary stuff.

Scott: Yeah. So from kind of that emotional side from… So we sold the majority of stake to private equity five and a half years ago, and I kind of joke now that I used to be the man, now I’m working for the man. And I know that’s how a lot of people feel when they sell their organization. So, like, what have you guys seen as far as kind of the emotional toll on folks?

David: Yeah. Yeah. I think you’re talking post-transaction. I think, you know, it really depends. And it runs a gamut too of folks that, you know, they might be, you know, control freaks, and they’re very concerned about doing the deal, but once they do the deal and they see that things are going pretty well, they see that their clients are taken care of, sometimes even better than they could have been before. You know, that’s part of the power of scale. You know, they let go more and they’re ready to move toward an exit faster. On the other end of the continuum, people really can get invigorated and get excited about different aspects of what they’re working on. But I think, you know, that awareness, one of the things we might even talk about is the definition of control, right? So, a lot of firms, you know, when we talk to them, self-side engagements, they think, “Oh, you know, I don’t want to give up any control.” And we say, “Okay, well tell us about that.” Like…

Scott: What control are you talking about?

David: Exactly. Yeah. Do you want control over compliance? Well, no, of course not. Who’d want that? How about technology? Well, you know, I gotta say, I don’t enjoy technology. All right. How about client experience? Yeah. Yeah. That’s really important to me. Okay. How about operations? You know, and you start going through and you talk one cheat sheet for folks on a functional level, what are the different functions? You know, because all of us don’t like administrative headaches, right? But that’s kind of a gray category. The ability to start thinking it through… You know, what you don’t need control of, or even don’t want control of is a step toward finding that partner that’s going to allow you to play in the very best zone for your psyche.

Scott: Yeah. It’s interesting. I tend to go through an exercise about once a year, where I’ll write down all my activities on a typical week, and then I look at which ones are really within my sweet spot, well, yeah, my unique abilities, and which ones are not? What do I enjoy doing or what do I hate doing? And I look at that list of things I’m doing that I don’t enjoy doing. Like, how do I get that off my plate as soon as possible, right? And I think going through that same sort of exercise probably before someone does a transaction, I would imagine is helpful.

David: Yeah. Yeah. I think you’re spot on. And good news, you know, you’re taking that discipline. Because it does take some time and energy. We’re all busy. And then when we get home, we got our lives outside of that. So it does take almost discipline time to think through, okay, what am I not enjoying throughout the day? You know, what do I wanna do more of? And it’s this ironic thing where, you know, owners of firms like you and me and entrepreneurs, we have control over how we spend our time and energy to a high degree. But, you know, we’re so busy that we don’t take the time to think through and then make the change. So, you know, the experience to sell externally or contemplate any sort of transactions, internal, external, etc., you know, creates that space and that window to really do some self-reflection which can be powerful regardless of the transaction you choose to do.

Scott: Yeah. Well, this research we did together, it highlighted some of the fears owners might have as they’re facing all this. What are some of those key takeaways from your perspective?

David: Yeah. In terms of fears, you know, we talk to our clients. We sometimes joke we’re therapists with spreadsheets, you know. So, we’re nerds about getting into the technical side of the equation and sort of, you know, crunching numbers and make sure everything lines up. But, you know, also we’re getting that real-life stuff, and we’re being that therapist to say, “Hey, help us. You know, what’s most important to you?” So on the fear side, you know, the biggest fear, because we did that survey and we talked anecdotally to a lot of advisors, and giving up control is the number one fear that advisors have. And you can imagine, we joked about being a control freak, part of that is that control aspect. But more importantly, they wanna make sure that there’s a baby that they’ve developed, that they’ve nurtured from this idea into, you know, a book of business into a going concern, into a strong business, you know, isn’t damaged. So that’s directly related to the second and third concerns, which are selling to the wrong buyer. I either mess up this beautiful thing that I created or, you know, change in client care. Gee, am I gonna sell to someone, join forces with someone, and they’re not going to treat the clients the way they should be, or they’re gonna damage the relationship we’ve developed with them, or just provide sub-optimal service. So, you know, those are the top three that we see in the marketplace.

Scott: Yeah. And how many…? How many deals have you think you’ve been involved in your career?

David: You know, if we go back 19 years, and depending on how we define involved in, I mean, it’s a couple of hundreds.

Scott: So what is your background? A couple hundred in the last 19 years, what is your background? Like, how did you become the expert in this space?

David: Yeah, yeah. You know, we joked, I won’t get into the surf pant company that I launched during my senior year of college. We’ll start a little bit after that. But my core business…

Scott: Actually go back briefly on that because you shared that with me one night over a cocktail, I think, I thought it was interesting.

David: That’s right. Yeah. So, you know, I was a senior in college and I accidentally, literally accidentally started a clothing company. So, you know, I was playing in bands, you wouldn’t recognize me. I had longer hair back in the day, but I was playing in bands. A buddy, you know, lent me a pair of baggy surf pants. They were all cool. I wore them on stage and everyone loved them. And my girlfriend made me a couple of pairs. And then, you know, I’d go around and everyone commented on them, “Whoa, those were so cool.” This was before the internet, right? So finally I was in a surf shop in Santa Barbara, and the owner in a surf shop came up and he said, “Hey, those are really cool. Where’d you get them?” And I said…

Scott: You’re kidding. That’s funny.

David: No. I said, “Well, I have my own company.” And we started chatting. About 10 minutes later, he said, “I don’t believe you have your own company, but here’s a PO, you know, I’ll give you 20 bucks a pair for 10 pairs. So, I started making them in the basement of, you know, the fraternity that I lived in, and selling them to authorities, and fraternities, and people on campus. Got them into surf shops and Nordstroms. And that was my introduction to business. So I was a liberal arts major, until then, I was like, “Wow, business is really cool.”

Scott: You got those pants, not just in the local surf shop, but in the Nordstroms?

David: Three Nordstrom locations. And they reordered. They reordered. They were like, “Look, we’re gonna give you a whole rounder,” for anyone in the clothing industry, the togs environment. They said, “Look, we’re gonna give you a whole rounder in each one of these three stores,” because we blew through them. But people were blowing through them in the changing room. Like, Dave, you gotta work on your construction. People were actually ripping them and [inaudible 00:13:13.543], you gotta increase your quality. So, I literally moved to San Francisco, I won’t call it a sweatshop, but back in the early days, there was actually clothing manufacturing in San Francisco. So, I started outsourcing.

Scott: Okay. Anyway, so how about after college? Like, how…

David: After college, yeah.

Scott: How did you get…? You decided to leave the clothing industry and go into financial services of sorts.

David: Yeah. Yeah. I eventually went to business school, came out and I joined American Express. I was not interested in financial services. It was too vague for me, intangible, what is this? But I wanted to do strategy…

Scott: And were you an American Express on the financial planning side of the house? Advice wealth management?

David: It was a strategy group. It was 35, primarily ex-McKinsey folks. We reported directly into the CEO, Harvey Golub. And it was very sexy. Like, I was presenting to Harvey and Ken Chenault. And, you know, it was the office of the chief executive that we reported into. I was on a corporate jet with Harvey. It was really sexy. But, you know, I was getting ground up and it was hard at the time, you know, ex-McKinsey partners don’t hesitate to grind up, you know, newly minted MBAs. So, I worked nonstop and it created, you know, it’s really foundational for DeVoe & Company because it created this discipline. You had to have every detail precise, you know, it’s strategy consulting, but you’re presenting to the senior management team. And, you know, it’s a lot of strategic thinking. That’s exactly what we were doing across all the different business units. You could hire McKinsey or Bain or, you know, Schwab’s, I’m sorry, Amex’s, internal business strategy group. But it also created this analytical rigor. You know, you’re working with really smart people, everything needs to make tight, logical sense. So those foundational elements, you know, tight details on numbers, analytical rigor, and then, you know, strategic thinking layered on top of those elements was really foundational for everything we do today at DeVoe & Co.

Scott: And so, how’d you go from American Express to DeVoe & Co?

David: Yeah, a couple of years at American Express, and then that was in New York City, I moved back to the Bay Area. I did a dotcom for two years. I was chasing that, you know, dragon, if that’s an analogy, or a saying. And after that, I moved over to Schwab. So, 19 years ago I was at Schwab. I was part of their business strategy team, much smaller group, a bunch of XBCG folks. And the first project I worked on was whether or not Schwab should launch a platform to help their 5,000 advisory firms with this new pain point of M&A and succession planning and evaluation. Again, this was 19 years ago, I’m aging myself. But, you know, Schwab was losing assets to some of these banks, and we wanted to help, you know, the RIA community.

So, you know, nearly 20 years ago, custodians back then didn’t even have consulting teams or value-added services. It was all custody, and trading and, you know, technology. So this was the first value-added service that any of the custodians made. So I’ve made the business case, Debbie McWhinney was running the group. She’s like, “All right, good idea. Let’s go do this. Dave, go launch this.” So, I launched and then ran Schwab’s M&A platform for the remaining eight and a half years that I was there. And that was the springboard for DeVoe & Company 11 years ago.

Scott: Wow. And over that period, you’ve been involved with a couple of hundred transactions.

David: Yeah, yeah. You know, you can imagine at Schwab, I was working, you know, directly with their biggest clients. You know, we created this platform, this online dating service to help, you know, firms buy, sell, merge, etc. You can imagine all the investment bankers too wanted to be my best friend because I was their gateway to 5,000 advisors at the time. It’s much larger now. But it was neat because I got to see what I liked about what they were doing and what I didn’t like. I was the internal resource at Schwab. I also got to talk to their clients about what they liked about bankers and what they didn’t. So, when I launched DeVoe & Co., you know, had a lot of clarity and even conviction around how we’re gonna do this differently. You know, Schwab didn’t love doing investment banking, the legal team had a lot of guardrails. So I was like, wow, I want to do consulting. That’s my wiring. And I wanna do investment banking. And we became a goal-based consulting and investment bank. I say we, it was me, now we’re 23 people, but back then it was just Dave DeVoe and [inaudible 00:17:34.270].

Scott: Yeah, kind of the same way you started your pants business.

David: Yes, yes. No changing rooms involved in this one. Yeah.

Scott: Yeah. So, with these transactions, and we’ve got the principal, but then we also have clients and staff. And based on your experience, how have clients reacted by and large when there’s a transaction?

David: Yeah, you know, we see great retention. And this has been pretty consistent. Actually, it’s gotten better. You know, if I’m looking back over 19 years, the buyers in today’s marketplace have gotten stronger. They have more sophisticated management teams. They’re very sensitive to leaky buckets. You know, they don’t wanna lose clients. They wanna, you know, maintain and even, you know, clearly grow the client base, but even gather more assets. So, you know, on average, I’d say… And you’ll see car wrecks, you know, where some firms if this is important stuff if you don’t do this right, you know, you’re gonna lose 30% or 40% of your clients. I mean, it can be a disaster. But that’s an outlier. You know, today, the vast majority of these transactions are not only above 95%, 98%, you know, today’s buyers especially the experienced ones, they’ve really created a science around us. You know, our clients are often dazzled because during the life cycle, sometimes buyers are saying, “By the way, here’s our playbook to bring you onto our platform. And, you know, it’s a brick, you know, it’s thick, it’s electronic, so it’s not thick on a desk.” But, you know, we’re talking about tens and tens of pages. You know, you have an entire team at your company that is going to, you know, handhold technically, relationship, operationally, you know, every component of moving a client over. So, the clients typically, you know, I’ll be honest to you, in some cases, they’re like, this is really good news. You’re part of a bigger firm.

Scott: Well, you just…

David: You have more specialization, you have more capabilities, you have a bigger staff, you know.

Scott: And you now…

David: I’m happy for you and your team. Yeah.

Scott: And you now have a true succession. And if something happens to you, I know I don’t have to go find a new advisor.

David: Yeah, yeah. My old joke is, you know, even if you’re young, if your client doesn’t say it out loud, they’re thinking it in their head, what happens to me and my life savings if something happens to you? You know, like, if the proverbial bus is going to take someone out, you know, that’s gonna be tragic, but it’s going to be, you know, an urgent pain point for any client. So, those that don’t have succession plans on the line, please go create one, you know, or call tomorrow morning.

Scott: And communicate with the clients. Yeah. We’ve also found this, oftentimes, there’s other assets that clients haven’t brought over. And, like, oh, now you’re… You were getting up in age and I was concerned, now I see you’re part of a bigger team. I don’t have to worry. So here’s some more cash. I mean, we’ve seen those sort of things happen. Now, how about from as far as the staff, because most people don’t thrive on change, right? And so suddenly one day they’re told, oh, this little six-person team you’ve been part of, you’re now gonna be part of a 300-person team or 10,000-person team. Like, how do most staff react, and what’s that emotional journey like for them?

David: Yeah, yeah. There’s a couple of layers to that. I mean, one that immediately comes to mind is, you know, we’ll go on a journey. We’ve become best friends with our clients because we’re meeting with them, you know, every week and even some meetings between, etc. It’s the most important business decision of their career, arguably. So, you know, we become very close to them. And then it’s always interesting because as soon as they pick their favorite buyer and they’re like, man alive, this is going to be so great. I’m so excited. And yeah, we’ll talk about the life cycle of the emotions. They’re moving into a very positive space, but then they think, “Oh my gosh, you know, I’m wringing my hands on how the staff is going to react to this.” And good news, they’re familiar with change management and how concerning that can be. But what they have in the blind spot is this is so good for their staff in the vast majority of cases. And what I mean by that is specifically career path, economics, you know, operational headaches, and things like that. And by all means, I’m not like all butterflies and rainbows, and I’m not, you know, interested in these things.

Scott: But by and large, yes.

David: But yeah, I mean, think about it. You’re running a firm, pick a number. You’re, you know, 200 million or 2 billion, or 15 billion, you’re selling to a larger organization. And, you know, this larger organization is just going to be growing faster. It has more opportunities. In many cases, we see people that join firms and then they become, you know, head of this within the entire organization, which is 30 times the size of the firm that they were at before.

Scott: We have a whole slide that is a variety of faces of firms, just what you’re speaking of.

David: Yeah, yeah.

Scott: Came through our partners and now they have leadership roles.

David: Yeah. So, I mean, it’s really cool. So I think, by all means, I don’t want to diminish or invalidate that change management concern. You know, everyone gets a little nervous about, hey, wait, I’m gonna have a new patch on my uniform. Or gee, what are these people like, is this boogeyman? But, you know, the good news is I think the majority of them get, either intuitively or as soon as it’s explained, you know, that this is really going to be good for them and their families, you know, sounds like yours too. You’re not here to like cut costs or anything, you’re going to, you know, make economic… You’re gonna reward people to go out and do great things. So even the economic side of the equation for these people can really unlock value and power.

Now, there is an asterisk, you know, some of those that had in their mind that, “Gee, I’m gonna buy this firm out. I’m gonna be this future leader, you know, I’m gonna run this thing, etc.,” which we mentioned earlier on the call is a smaller subset. You know, not everyone is wired to be an entrepreneur, but, you know, those folks might have more of an initial, you know, wow, I had designs on owning and running this whole firm. You know, the challenge is, as we said earlier, that’s not always, you know, the way things can play out.

Scott: Well, and it’s even more challenging when it’s a family member, right? Like a child, son…

David: Yeah, yeah.

Scott: Son or a daughter.

David: Yep. Yep. Which, you know, that’s a whole another emotional circus. I mean, you know, it’s not only a son or a daughter, but often there’s other sons or daughters. And then are you treating one differently than the others? And, you know, yeah, it’s an interesting challenge. We’ve seen everything from, you know, the kids being too young and not being at a level where they can really take it on and run it at the stage that they need to. You know, even the passion, a lot of those kids, you know, frankly, I’m more interested in relationship management than being a, you know, CEO or running a company. So, yeah, it all depends.

Scott: Yeah. And so, how about the whole notion of being your own boss, calling your own shots, setting your own hours, golfing if you feel like golfing, all that stuff, to becoming an employee? Like, what advice do you give your folks as they go through this transition as far as becoming an employee to somebody else?

David: Yeah, yeah. Matter of fact, you know, you go back to those fears that, you know, giving up that control is a variation, the number four is, you know, giving up a leadership position. What does this mean? I’m now an employee. So, you know, I get it to a degree where, you know, you’ve sort of been running the company on your own way and doing it your own style, and now things might be a little different. You know, you’re used to flying first class, maybe, you know, that’s only on trips over this amount or not. So it really depends on the different buyers and what that looks like, you know. But I don’t know. I also think back to the time when I, you know, 11 years ago I mentioned I launched DeVoe & Co. I went to a wedding. I was going to a destination wedding, literally the days after I left my former employer. And I got on this bus with a bunch of people that were going to that wedding, and the guy next to me was an entrepreneur. And I said, “Wow, this is so cool. I’m so excited. I’m starting my own company.” And he said this interesting thing. He said, “You know, becoming an entrepreneur, it’s giving up the illusion of security for the illusion of control.” So many of us entrepreneurs think we have all this control, but I’ll tell you, you know, it’s been 10 years since I’ve taken a true vacation, right? And really checked out offline.

You know, sometimes people are… My sisters are like, “You should work less.” I’m like, “I don’t think I can. Like right now, I have so much depending on me that I can’t.” So, I think in some cases, you know, there’s that double-edged sword of like, you don’t have control over this element or that element, but conversely, you do have more control over your life and vacations and taking a deep breath. But I don’t know. I’m curious. I’ve been answering a bunch of the questions. You’ve seen this as much as I have, you know, what do you see out there, Scott? Folks as they come over and join an organization like yours, how do the entrepreneurs react?

Scott: Yeah, that’s great. Some absolutely thrive. And for them, it’s like, I get to unload stuff I didn’t like doing. I now have access to resources I didn’t have before. I’ve got this platform of whatever the services are, usually, the larger firms have more services to offer clients, right? So some really thrive in that, and actually, I think have more control over their calendar than they did before, because to like your point, they’re not running the business anymore. They don’t have to worry about if the computer crashes in the middle of the night or all that stuff. It’s not their worry, right? So all their worries is their clients. And they know that there’s a bunch of backup staff if they’re not there to talk with their clients.

But I think on the other end of the extreme, I think of the ones that I’ve seen, David, that are the most challenging are the ones that somebody thought they’re at retirement age or maybe even a little past normal retirement age, they aren’t really ready to retire emotionally. So, they kind of have one foot in and one foot out. And I think what’s challenging for those people is any new home, they’re gonna do things a little bit differently, which means you’re gonna have to adapt to that kind of processes and stuff. And those are the ones that I find struggle the most.

David: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott: And I think they find their identity really in their career, and they’ve got all these relationships with clients that they love, and so they wanna maintain that, but they don’t really wanna go through the change that might be necessary for them to thrive.

David: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think a lot of this gets back to self-awareness. And what I mean by that is, you know, throughout the process, back to that joke about therapists with spreadsheets, you know, truly, I see people hire us and they’re like, “Oh, you’re gonna negotiate the best deal.” Well, sure, but much more importantly, we’re gonna find you the very best fit, you know, DeVoe [crosstalk 00:28:41.327]

Scott: That’s the most important thing. And the numbers are gonna be within the ballpark most likely, right? So, it’s within 5% or 10%, one way or the other. It should not be the defining factor.

David: Yeah. And at the end of the day, you know, it’s like, from our perspective, if you find the very best partner, they’re actually gonna pay a premium for your organization, which we’d like to see way above, you know, 5% or 10%, etc. But, you know, much more importantly, is you’re writing chapters of your life with this transaction. And, you know, there’s different chapters that can be written. And if you’re not, you know, going on that process, and this is why we have our process set up, to get into this stuff and say, “Hey, what do you want control of? What do you not…? You know, and we push them to understand that, and then you’re able to make sure you avoid that round peg, square hole, you know?

And the last thing you want is that scenario where someone’s joining your organization, you know, with the collective view, and they just, either weren’t self-aware enough or they didn’t have, you know, a banker like us to say, “Wait a sec, that kink is not gonna line up with that…” What’s that? The cam thing. I don’t know. I have this visual of a bike right now. But that’s not gonna sync up, and that’s gonna create some dissonance that isn’t good for anyone. So I think the fit is so important, and yeah, is really a critical component. Everyone gets excited about the numbers and the shiny stuff, but that emotional thing, the control thing, these softer things are absolutely critical to a successful transaction.

Scott: Yeah. Well, I totally agree with you, and I really appreciate the time you took to have a conversation with me today as well.

David: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you, and I think you guys are doing such a neat job out there.

Scott: Yeah. I mean, it’s fun that we worked on this project together. Again, it’s the white paper “Heart of The Deal: Understanding and Overcoming the Emotional Barriers of Selling your RIA.” And you can find that, I’m sure you can find that on DeVoe’s website if you poke around, and you can certainly find it on Allworth Partners as well. So, thanks for taking some time with us.

David: My pleasure.

Scott: And to the listeners, thank you for taking part of our podcast today. If you wanna learn more about Allworth, go to allworthpartners.com. You can learn quite a bit about who we are and how we’ve grown through our partnership program. And if you do not have a copy of this white paper, you can download it right from the website, so.

Man: This podcast has been brought to you by Allworth Financial, a registered investment advisory firm with the Securities and Exchange Commission.